1

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Unbroken1 wrote:
Presto wrote:

Who cares? Play what sounds good to you.

I gave up on genres a long, long time ago.

..of course this is the sensible route, and a much easier one to follow these days when descriptors for all styles of house/dance are a bastardised mess. I wouldn't know how to explain what I'm into these days and it's best not to try.

It is interesting to unpick which style influenced which though... (cue BF: "yes isn't it *yawn*). Problem is, when someone like Matty expresses an opinion, it relies on the acceptance of a premise like Oaky being "simply untouchable", when IMO he was and always has been a fucking jammy sheister...

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, everyone's perspective on the evolution of club music in the UK is different.. read loads of books about it, and i don't think there's been a single one that tallies with my own experiences.


Hey its all about opinions.  That's the beauty of the diversity of dance music.

Not sure my post "relied" upon my Oakenfold opinion.  His Essential Mix World Tour of 1999, whether you like it or not was one of the stand out moments in dance music.  Personally I don't think anyone came close to capturing the same euphoria end energy that he brought to the dance floor.  For me, and hopefully a few others, there was a magic about his DJing few others attained, notably Sasha 1993 through 1995, Digweed and for sure others in places.

Oakenfold's mixes from Sydney and Shanghai are for me examples of a DJ at the very top of his game.

(Trance though, not progressive)

2

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Presto wrote:

Who cares? Play what sounds good to you.

I gave up on genres a long, long time ago.

I agree!

What type of sound best describes what sounds good to you?

;-)

3

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

MattBlack wrote:

I remember listening to Jules when he was on Kiss before he joined radio 1 and he played what essentially you would call handbag house, he probably started to embrace the trancier sound around 97-98


People were playing trance in 1998 including Judge Jules, my point was when Oakenfold disappeared in 2000 onwards it was the likes of JJ, Tong, Pearce (just to name a few) that were keeping the maintstream trance sound alive.

To points made by others, the bigger DJs, Digweed, Seaman, Sasha, Nick Warren to name a few moved away from trance into a more "progressive house/progressive trance" niche.

Whether JJ was playing anything at any time is for me largely irrelevant to any quality dance music discussion.

4

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

joeyp wrote:
Ncable wrote:

I remember Jules coming into the studio with a freshly cut acetate of Ferry Corsten's Out of the Blue, except this was so new Corsten hadn't even named it yet - the working title scribbled on the label was 'Something to blow your brains out with'. This was summer 1998 and JJ was in full trance mode by then.

I also concur re: tech house, a movement which had been quietly chugging along since about 1991. I used to have a mixtape from that period with Eddie Richards on one side and Evil O on the other and they were playing US house dubs and what seemed like minimal techno tracks pitched down - everything at about 125bpm, which funnily enough is what we've come back to. Mr C and Layo started End Recordings in 1996 I think - tech house was well and truly established by then.

Your full of shit.

Loopy signed that

I stand correct on Judge Jules.

I've never liked him.  I think his sequencing is terrible, his mixing sub standard.

If he's your cup of tea, then kudos to you.

I'm happy to be wrong of JJ as he is shit.

IMO

:-)

5

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Dan Harwood wrote:

The Renaissance Mix I posted is pure Progressive in both sound and style, so clearly you're wrong.

Hey, look, the post wasn't intended to be 100% perfect recollection.  Its how I remember it, being on the dance floor and buying CDs and mixes avidly.  I was there when it happened and that's how it went with me.

Of course there are exceptions to what I said.  Stand alone examples.  I was talking generally about the progressive house movement and when it came together through to when it expired.

There were good "progressive" examples before then.  JDJ Billy Nasty is one that other's have identified.

To your point, Renaissance Mix part 1 is without question one of the greatest mixes of all time, along with Northern Exposure 1.

Are they "progressive house", "progressive house", "trance", "house" would probably be a thread in its own.

How do they compare to the likes of Digweed Bedrock, Jimmy Van M Bedrock, Digweed Los Angeles, Parks and Wilson Painting on Silence which for me epitomise "progressive house", there is clearly a distinct change in the sound.

The former being more base driven, rolling baselines, epic sweeping rise and falls, deep melodies.

You could argue that this exists in parts in RM 1, but I find to the ear this to be more lighter, house/trance.  It is for sure epic and is for sure full of melody.

Another fine example is Digweed's Renaissance Mix Part 2.  Marco Polo - Prayer to the Music is without question one of the finest "progressive house/progressive house" tracks ever made.  Is RM Part 2 a "progressive house" album?  No clearly.

6

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Dan Harwood wrote:

http://www.discogs.com/Dave-Seaman-And- … ter/102904 - From 1996.

If you haven't heard this particular set of mixes you may as well give up. Because you clearly know jack. May I point you to Dave Seaman Disc Two as a clear reference for you to go away and listen too.


I've got everything renaissance released, including the "Silk Mix" which you had to smoke yourself to death to earn.

Love the Renaissance sound from back then.  The Dave Morallas mix on Worldwide is also a gem

7

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

steelydan wrote:
Dan Harwood wrote:

http://www.discogs.com/Dave-Seaman-And- … ter/102904 - From 1996.

If you haven't heard this particular set of mixes you may as well give up. Because you clearly know jack. May I point you to Dave Seaman Disc Two as a clear reference for you to go away and listen too.

cracking that mix.........still sounds great


Couldn't agree more.  The Ian Ossia mix is truly beautiful in places.

Back in the day when opening a CD was an experience

8

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

I think you are missing my point.

Pre 1998 dance music existed. Clearly.

Sasha's essential mix 1995 is an all time great, Dave Seaman Essential Mix 1996 was a classic.

Whilst you could argue this style was "progressive", it was more a "style" than a "sound".

I classify most of the pre 1998 mixes as either house or trance.  Digweed's GU Sydney is brilliant house mix, with a whole host of genres.

My point is that I think 1998 was the first time progressive house came together in complete mixes.  Sasha's GU San Francisco is a significant step change in sound from pre 1998 mixes.  Whether this is progressive house or progressive trance is semantics.

9

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Dan Harwood wrote:

http://www.discogs.com/Tong-Cox-Sasha-O … ase/212434

Mixes Three and Four

Trance.

10

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Unbroken1 wrote:
matttymm wrote:

This is how I remember it doing down, just to clear up and confusion.

1998...............

...aye, football didn't exist before 1992 either

The post was about progressive house.

As per my previous thread, there was a "progressive style" and lots of good examples of "progressive house" tunes well before 1998.

I think 1998 was when it started to come together as a complete sound in DJ mixes.

Someone much better educated than me would need to track the path before then.

11

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Dan Harwood wrote:

To correct your glaring errors, and I'm afraid that there are plenty, would take quite a while. I would see what the chaps have picked up on already and go from there.

Sounds like you are full of shit Dan, leaving it others.

Just an observation

12

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Beijing Dave wrote:

And Sander Kleinenberg NuBreed must have been 2001 latest as it was my pre-night out mix in my final year of uni.

F8ck!!

You've got me!!

March 2001

:-)

13

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Dan Harwood wrote:

No no, stay. Get an education. Then maybe when you get to publish your dissertation you might actually get some of your facts right.


Always happy to be educated.

Accept its not 100% accurate, but its there or there abouts.

Also a few typos :-(

Its how I remember it.

If you think something is glaringly wrong, then please put me right

14

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Dan Harwood wrote:
matttymm wrote:

2000 - Trance kicked off commercially big time.  Releases like "Euphoria", "Trance Anthems" started to suck all credibility out of it.  You had the likes of Tong, Pearce, Jules playing trance.

Tech House was also emerging from the likes of Seb Fontaine and Prototype Series  This harder edgier house while good in the clubs was less easier on the ear for home listening

You're clearly mixing up your genres if you think Seb Fontaine was a Tech House pioneer! Tech House is a completely different sound to what Seb played which was pretty much post-prog / pre-electro house. Tech House is Wiggle, Mr C., Terry Francis and Evil Eddie Richards then during the early 00's Fabric and the West Coast sound. It's only in recent years that Tech House has been mis-appropriated by the Tool Room crowd in much the same way as today's Deep House is in no way similar to the proper late 80's/early 90's Deep House.

Its not a genre I'm particularly experienced in.  I definitely remember the Prototype Series being very dark, techy.  The first one was a bit more trance/house, but the series evolved into a very dark, tech house sound.  IMO anyway.

15

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

LOL

I feel like another multiple year sabbatical coming on.

16

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

poirot wrote:

This is commonly known as your MBB, Matty.

MBB?

:-(

17

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Beijing Dave wrote:

And when I say "the squares getting into it" I clearly mean people like matttymm

A bit harsh Dave.  I was there through it all.

18

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Apparently with my prog cred now in tatters, and being trolled;

Clearly there were lots of different sounds going on.  People had the same journey, but different paths.

This is how I remember it doing down, just to clear up and confusion.

1998- Paul Oakenfold top of his game.  Playing the latter days of his sets in the courtyard at Cream.  Sound was very much house and trance orientated.  His GU from New York was simply stunning.  Had a mixture of house/trance/breakbeat/dub.  Noone was close to him. 

Sasha returned from his spell in the wilderness with GU San Francisco.  For me that was the start of the progressive house sound. Whether tracks like "Space Manoeuvres" is progressive house or progressive trance is semantics.  It was an awesome track.

Hooj Tunes took a massive step forwards with their "Deeper Shades" series.  Volume 2 and Volume 3 - this for me captured the "progressive trance" sound as opposed to it being "progressive house"

1999 - Oakenfold's world tour on Essential Mix.  He was simply untouchable that year.  Top of DJ Magazine Top 100 (for what its worth).  Digweed's Bedrock was released, deep, chuggy progressive house. Mark Lewis Essential Mix was excellent.  Sasha's Ibiza on GU became one of the biggest selling dance albums of all time.  Oakenfold moved to Home London.

2000 - Trance kicked off commercially big time.  Releases like "Euphoria", "Trance Anthems" started to suck all credibility out of it.  You had the likes of Tong, Pearce, Jules playing trance.

Tech House was also emerging from the likes of Seb Fontaine and Prototype Series  This harder edgier house while good in the clubs was less easier on the ear for home listening

2000/2001 - Trance took a different direction with AVB , Tiesto coming to the forth.  Oakenfold's "Travelling" release was truly dire.  Trance for me because harder, faster away from the mainstream. The Gatecrasher releases (Black/Red) kept trance credible.  Renaissance were flying the flag with Renaissance Worldwide.  Oakenfold's Essential Mixes from early 2000 were the last time I really enjoyed him playing.  The Global Underground NU Breed series was showcasing new progressive sounds from the likes on Anthony Pappa, Satohsi Tomie

2001/2002 - Progressive house really took off through the likes of Parks and Wilson Painting on Silence, Seaman/Cattaneo on Renaissance.  Markus James's Sound of Renaissance was a brilliant album.  Jimmy Van M on Bedrock, Chris Fortier on Bedrock.  Lemon 8 Sanctuary Sessions.  Steve Lawler was taking a more tribal approach through the very excellent Dark Drums and Lights Out series on GU.  Digweed Los Angeles captured the progressive house sound most moderfully.  Balance entered the dance mix arena.  Sean Quinn, Kasey Taylor and the very good Bill Hamell releases


2002/2003 - It was around 2002 I gave up on Trance and focused on "progressive house".  Trance seemed to be rooted in the Tiesto/PVD/AVB harder "euro trance".  It was always too fast and hard to make enjoyable listening.  The likes of Global Underground were churning out quality progressive house through the likes of Sander Kleinenberg Nu Breed. The likes of Danny Howells and Lee Burridge were flying the high in the UK Scene.  24/7 releases on GU being good examples.  Sasha and Digweed pioneered the progressive house scene across the US with the Delta Heavy tour.

2003/2004 - Sander Kleineberg was at his heights, the "Everybody" release on Renaissance were all very good (maybe not so the later ones), Dave Seaman had his Therapy Sessions thing going on.  Hernan Cattaneo was coming to the fore following his earlier Perfecto release.  Around the time When Desyn Masiello released his Bedrock Originals and latterly his Essential mix the progressive sound began to unwind. James Zabelia's Alive was beginning to bring a newer, more electro vibe to the scene.

2004/2005 - Digweed's sound seemed to evolve within literally a couple of months.  The "Transitions" series while technically brilliant were a far cry from the chuggier more progressive sound of "Delta Heavy".  Global Underground series appeared to lose its focus and diversify with James Lavelle and Danny Howells. (although the Danny Howells mix has stood the test of time).  Balance had some good stuff going on with Chris Fortier

2005/2006 - The minimalist electro sound was taking hold.  James Zabelia Utilities. Nic Fanciulli was a good progressive release, but his sound quickly evolved by his latter release "Renaissance Presents Vol 2".  By this time there were less and less quality progressive house releases.  Deep Dish on GU and Nick Warren were OK, but not truly excellent.  Jimmy Van M's release on Balance was probably one of the last really good/solid progressive house releases.

I'm sorry if I've caused offence to anyone.

Maximum kudos to anyone that was there.

Am sure I've made a few errors somewhere in there.  Apologies to anything I've missed or overlooked.

Its a little misty remembering that far back, usually I can't remember what I've done last week.

:-)

19

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Homegrove wrote:

I'd also put the death of the prog scene somewhere around 2004. Desyn's Essential mix from that year was a game changer. It was at least my first introduction to the electro-influenced house sound that dominated 2005.

It was around 2005.  I remember the last of the Bedrock Original Series (Luke Fair??) and shortly after that the bottom dropped out and everyone was minimalist electro house of all a sudden.

If it's Desyn Massielo's fault then he is a CnnT

20

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Big Fella wrote:

Is Mattymmm taking the piss here, my takingthepissometer is in for calibration?

Not sure what to say to that.

Takes such a beating not sure whether its my elbow I'm sat on.

No piss taking intended

Homegrove wrote:

Never heard number 1, got to seek that one out.

A review from Amazon:

It's about time the breadth and depth of minimal electronic music gets explored within the context of a compilation, but The Grandfather Paradox is far too tentative. Venerable music by Steve Reich, Moondog, CAN and Raymond Scott functions more as frosting for a beat-heavy mix (at least for the first mix cd - the second is unmixed). Compilers Schwarz, Ame & Dixon admit they began with the idea of celebrating minimal techno from the 90s but expanded the brief to include earlier music. It sounds like they got confused and ended up focusing on creating a seamless (yet quite enjoyable) mix, but there's really not enough here to differentiate this from any number of compilations attempting a way forward with such conservative means. It's all very pleasant but basically inconsequential: there are no really surprising juxtapositions, just an endless flow of data.

Sounds as shit as the list to be honest

Any list that doesn't start with Sasha and Digweed's Renaissance the Mix Pt1 loses all credibility instantly

23

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

Dan Harwood wrote:

Trance defined an era. Prog had a part to play in it, but wasnt the defining sound of that era. It was probably the most commercially successful/viable 'underground' music of the late 90's/early 00's.

Progressive house took over where trance left off around 2000.  Once Oakenfold's World Tour in 1999 Essential Mix show was captured by the likes of Tong, Jules, Pearce all credibility went out of it.  Even the likes of Gatecrasher and Hooj evolved their sound to a more progressive house feel.

Trance was kept alive in the wider European community through the likes of Tiesto and PVD.  It wasn't until Above and Beyond came to the fore that it became more widely acclaimed again.

Never did understand what happened to Oakenfold, he has the world at his feet for a while there.

24

(345 replies, posted in General Bedrock Discussion)

monostereo wrote:
matttymm wrote:
monostereo wrote:

Listen to the current "prog" top 10 on Beatport.  Do that now and prepare to laugh out loud. Same story with their definition of deep house.   Beatport's genre categorisation is a complete fucking shambles.  They would be better of sacking off classification completely.

But "we are where we are". The problem with "Progressive House" is that it's an imperfectly defined, nebulous genre.


OMFG!!!!!

WTF!!!!

The problem here is that "progressive house" defined an era.  It was house music at its most commercially viable. Sasha's Ibiza was in the Top 10 of all albums (if memory serves me right).

Progressive house defined an era?  Hardly, it's never exactly been the zeitgeist has it. 

It's forever been the musical equivalent of wheelchair javelin or marbles. A minority sport the likes of which would struggle to make the BBC red button.


The progressive house sound was an "era" for sure - definition being:

"A date or event marking the beginning of a new and distinct period of time"

Just like trance before it, progressive house was the forefront of dance music for a fair few years.  It gave way to electro house, tech house, deep house that spans much of the more popular genres today.

An era doesn't necessarily need to span a decade.  Dance music has evolved too quickly for any one sound to truly dominate

poirot wrote:

Good to see mattymm back after his 2 year sabbatical.


:-)

I'm a firm believer in quality not quantity