Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

shaunstrudwick wrote:
starcreeper wrote:

I reckon your whole argument is bollocks. Its all hypothetical but give me a manager that could work wonders with the current crop of players, Dalglish?!?!? Dream on. What kind of fuckin magic was he gonna come up with, was he bringing his own funds to the table or something. The fairytale option wont work either.

You can't expect a new manager to come in and be ok with the squad Benitez put together either.  Yeah theres internationals in the team but theres internationals in every team in the premiership, that argument is a load of tosh. They got to WC final with their respective teams. Teams that show a polar opposite reflection on how to play football.
He had to make changes somehow, granted they may not be what you want/need but its not as if he had wads of cash to spend on more Internationals!! the club has been in freefall since the beginning of last season, the players werent good enough with Benitez and theyre worse off now.

Fair play to Hodgson for braving the job, Im sure he regrets taking it now. Its the same with Capello, one minute he was the saviour, then he became public enemy no.1, now England are winning again and everythings hunky dory. A month ago it was Lucas, last week it was Hodgson and now all of a sudden it was really Hicks/Gillette all along, make up yer mind ffs, these excuses are ridiculous. Sooner or later you're going to have to face the fact that you are a mid-league team at best who are struggling to stay above water with arguably the worst Pool squad in years. Oh yeah, and Leeds had a team full of internationals too!

loving the Mancs getting all excited that we could get relegated - lol!

when the sale is 100% confirmed I fully expect our performances to improve

Id be shocked if they went down but its not beyond the realms of possibilty right now.

I also fail to see how the sale will improve on field performances, unless some of the Red Sox are gonna tog out for ye, get a bit of muscle back in the team.

smellmycheese is bang on too.

*deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath*  "One game at a time lads" - Strudders (Mar,Apr,May 2014)

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

While Liverpool are weaker than they were 2 years ago they're should not be languishing in 18th place. Benitez did buy some absolute shit and did lose the dressing room last season. Yet he bought some great players though.

Everyone talks about how he spent 250 million but then he recouped at least half that and got over 150 mill through various European and Premier League campaigns. So he didn't really cost the club a great deal which people conveniently forgot especially in media.

The reason they're doing so terribly is predominantly Hodgson's fault and this was obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense. He's been a very ordinary manager throughout his career and can no way be compared to Benitez who has won 2 Spanish League Titles, a European Cup, a UEFA Cup & an FA Cup during his much shorter career.

I know people at the club (can't say who) and Hodgson's not that well liked or respected. No one had confidence in him from the start despite all damage limitation PR to the contrary and that has had a huge influence on performances. Compounded by ridiculous tactics,  transfers that may prove disastrous - Poulson, Cole, Konchesky & Meireles and no confidence from the manager concerning the team and you've a recipe for total fucking disaster.

The argument that Hodgson should be given more time is imo wrong as I don't think form will improve if he remains. He'll be gone by the Christmas period but action needs to be taken sooner.

I can see them staying in the drop zone for the rest of October - if they're still there in December might prove fatal. Hodgson has form for leaving a club in a terrible situation - Blackburn 1998-1999. If Liverpool leave the decision too late to get rid, they may be in the same position. If Hodgson doesn't pick up at least 4 points in the next 3 games, he has to be sacked.

Get a decent manager in and Liverpool's form would immediately improve. But the issue is who!

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

RichieRyan wrote:

I know people at the club (can't say who)

I hear ya Richie, I hear ya.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Get Joe Kinnear imo.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Right now as a player would you be tempted to join Liverpool? Can't see that changing for a while, unfortunately.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

RichieRyan wrote:

While Liverpool are weaker than they were 2 years ago they're should not be languishing in 18th place. Benitez did buy some absolute shit and did lose the dressing room last season. Yet he bought some great players though.

Everyone talks about how he spent 250 million but then he recouped at least half that and got over 150 mill through various European and Premier League campaigns. So he didn't really cost the club a great deal which people conveniently forgot especially in media.

The reason they're doing so terribly is predominantly Hodgson's fault and this was obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense. He's been a very ordinary manager throughout his career and can no way be compared to Benitez who has won 2 Spanish League Titles, a European Cup, a UEFA Cup & an FA Cup during his much shorter career.

I know people at the club (can't say who) and Hodgson's not that well liked or respected. No one had confidence in him from the start despite all damage limitation PR to the contrary and that has had a huge influence on performances. Compounded by ridiculous tactics,  transfers that may prove disastrous - Poulson, Cole, Konchesky & Meireles and no confidence from the manager concerning the team and you've a recipe for total fucking disaster.

The argument that Hodgson should be given more time is imo wrong as I don't think form will improve if he remains. He'll be gone by the Christmas period but action needs to be taken sooner.

I can see them staying in the drop zone for the rest of October - if they're still there in December might prove fatal. Hodgson has form for leaving a club in a terrible situation - Blackburn 1998-1999. If Liverpool leave the decision too late to get rid, they may be in the same position. If Hodgson doesn't pick up at least 4 points in the next 3 games, he has to be sacked.

Get a decent manager in and Liverpool's form would immediately improve. But the issue is who!

Hodgson is a handy scapegoat for the utter shambles at Anfield imo. Who was it that brought in a squad of distinctly average players, that finished 2nd in the league only to plummet the following season, boring the cunt off one and all in the process? Who was it that treated Xabi Alonso like a prick when he was, along with Mascherano the lynchpin to your success and possibly the strongest holding midfield pairing in football at the time? Who could it have been that then flogged him to Madrid replacing him with Lucas? Was it Roy Hodgson?

I agree that the septics have done immeasurable damage to the club, I would go as far to say they have ripped the soul out of the place. All the marches, candle-lit vigils, banners and cake-baking in the world can't change it now. This is the same American duo who were welcomed with open arms 4 years ago when envious eyes were cast in the direction of Chelsea and Manchester. Be careful what you wish for I think the saying goes. As an Arsenal fan I still fear that it could happen to us. If a club as successful and profitable as Man United can leave the back door open for a takeover why not us. Hopefully we can defend against it happening with these examples to learn from but I don't think you can ever fully protect against it.

Chelsea have the protection of Roman's billions but there will come a time when he calls it a day. It's not like it is ever going to become profitable enough for him to go on for decades, if it does ever make a profit at all. Even he has stopped spunking mega money on players.

Though it is United that are in the deepest shit of all. The money has well and truly dried up, it is only Lord Ferg's grip of steel that is holding the place together. Are Bebe and Hernandez super shrewd or desperation buys? Giggs, Scholes and Hargreaves are all finished and won't be, can't be replaced. You can start to see the logic in the arab's thinking at City now can't you. They can see a vacuum ready to be filled and they will keep on spending until they reach safety, same as Roman did at Chelsea.

None of the foreign owners coming into the game in this country have done well for the clubs with the obvious exceptions and I don't count Arsenal as safe although for the present the club is being very well run indeed.

Fit and proper persons? I should fucking coco.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Wiggipedia wrote:

Though it is United that are in the deepest shit of all. The money has well and truly dried up, it is only Lord Ferg's grip of steel that is holding the place together. Are Bebe and Hernandez super shrewd or desperation buys? Giggs, Scholes and Hargreaves are all finished and won't be, can't be replaced.

BF. Are you going to let him get away with that?

Fadas deffo wouldn't.

Keep it FLAC. Say NO to variable bit rates.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Strong work Wiggi.


Makes a change!

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Wiggipedia wrote:

Though it is United that are in the deepest shit of all. The money has well and truly dried up, it is only Lord Ferg's grip of steel that is holding the place together. Are Bebe and Hernandez super shrewd or desperation buys? Giggs, Scholes and Hargreaves are all finished and won't be, can't be replaced.

bang on Wiggz

check out my hearthis.at page

i'm too old for this shit

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

RichieRyan wrote:

While Liverpool are weaker than they were 2 years ago they're should not be languishing in 18th place. Benitez did buy some absolute shit and did lose the dressing room last season. Yet he bought some great players though.

Everyone talks about how he spent 250 million but then he recouped at least half that and got over 150 mill through various European and Premier League campaigns. So he didn't really cost the club a great deal which people conveniently forgot especially in media.

The reason they're doing so terribly is predominantly Hodgson's fault and this was obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense. He's been a very ordinary manager throughout his career and can no way be compared to Benitez who has won 2 Spanish League Titles, a European Cup, a UEFA Cup & an FA Cup during his much shorter career.

I know people at the club (can't say who) and Hodgson's not that well liked or respected. No one had confidence in him from the start despite all damage limitation PR to the contrary and that has had a huge influence on performances. Compounded by ridiculous tactics,  transfers that may prove disastrous - Poulson, Cole, Konchesky & Meireles and no confidence from the manager concerning the team and you've a recipe for total fucking disaster.

The argument that Hodgson should be given more time is imo wrong as I don't think form will improve if he remains. He'll be gone by the Christmas period but action needs to be taken sooner.

I can see them staying in the drop zone for the rest of October - if they're still there in December might prove fatal. Hodgson has form for leaving a club in a terrible situation - Blackburn 1998-1999. If Liverpool leave the decision too late to get rid, they may be in the same position. If Hodgson doesn't pick up at least 4 points in the next 3 games, he has to be sacked.

Get a decent manager in and Liverpool's form would immediately improve. But the issue is who!

V good post - you know what you're talking about. The actual net spend for Rafa in the end was between £70m and £80m over 13 transfer windows - more ws spent in earlier seasons. Spending peaked when Keane came in, after that there was a negative spend every subsequent transfer window.

I still think it would be interesting to see if Dalglish + changed backroom staff could cut it until a longer term solution is found.

My recommendation would have been to keep Rafa and see if we could get someone like Zola in as a no. 2 and Hyppia back to work on the coaching side.

Hyppia was a massive loss to us just for cover, experience & know how - he would have brought the likes of Insua on by working with them.

SimonR

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Wiggipedia wrote:
RichieRyan wrote:

While Liverpool are weaker than they were 2 years ago they're should not be languishing in 18th place. Benitez did buy some absolute shit and did lose the dressing room last season. Yet he bought some great players though.

Everyone talks about how he spent 250 million but then he recouped at least half that and got over 150 mill through various European and Premier League campaigns. So he didn't really cost the club a great deal which people conveniently forgot especially in media.

The reason they're doing so terribly is predominantly Hodgson's fault and this was obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense. He's been a very ordinary manager throughout his career and can no way be compared to Benitez who has won 2 Spanish League Titles, a European Cup, a UEFA Cup & an FA Cup during his much shorter career.

I know people at the club (can't say who) and Hodgson's not that well liked or respected. No one had confidence in him from the start despite all damage limitation PR to the contrary and that has had a huge influence on performances. Compounded by ridiculous tactics,  transfers that may prove disastrous - Poulson, Cole, Konchesky & Meireles and no confidence from the manager concerning the team and you've a recipe for total fucking disaster.

The argument that Hodgson should be given more time is imo wrong as I don't think form will improve if he remains. He'll be gone by the Christmas period but action needs to be taken sooner.

I can see them staying in the drop zone for the rest of October - if they're still there in December might prove fatal. Hodgson has form for leaving a club in a terrible situation - Blackburn 1998-1999. If Liverpool leave the decision too late to get rid, they may be in the same position. If Hodgson doesn't pick up at least 4 points in the next 3 games, he has to be sacked.

Get a decent manager in and Liverpool's form would immediately improve. But the issue is who!

Hodgson is a handy scapegoat for the utter shambles at Anfield imo. Who was it that brought in a squad of distinctly average players, that finished 2nd in the league only to plummet the following season, boring the cunt off one and all in the process? Who was it that treated Xabi Alonso like a prick when he was, along with Mascherano the lynchpin to your success and possibly the strongest holding midfield pairing in football at the time? Who could it have been that then flogged him to Madrid replacing him with Lucas? Was it Roy Hodgson?

I agree that the septics have done immeasurable damage to the club, I would go as far to say they have ripped the soul out of the place. All the marches, candle-lit vigils, banners and cake-baking in the world can't change it now. This is the same American duo who were welcomed with open arms 4 years ago when envious eyes were cast in the direction of Chelsea and Manchester. Be careful what you wish for I think the saying goes. As an Arsenal fan I still fear that it could happen to us. If a club as successful and profitable as Man United can leave the back door open for a takeover why not us. Hopefully we can defend against it happening with these examples to learn from but I don't think you can ever fully protect against it.

Chelsea have the protection of Roman's billions but there will come a time when he calls it a day. It's not like it is ever going to become profitable enough for him to go on for decades, if it does ever make a profit at all. Even he has stopped spunking mega money on players.

Though it is United that are in the deepest shit of all. The money has well and truly dried up, it is only Lord Ferg's grip of steel that is holding the place together. Are Bebe and Hernandez super shrewd or desperation buys? Giggs, Scholes and Hargreaves are all finished and won't be, can't be replaced. You can start to see the logic in the arab's thinking at City now can't you. They can see a vacuum ready to be filled and they will keep on spending until they reach safety, same as Roman did at Chelsea.

None of the foreign owners coming into the game in this country have done well for the clubs with the obvious exceptions and I don't count Arsenal as safe although for the present the club is being very well run indeed.

Fit and proper persons? I should fucking coco.

Fantastic post - if LFC steady the ship it will be interesting to see how other clubs fare. Arsenal have their stadium and that turnover, so they are in  pretty decent place.

SimonR

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Bottom line is there are very few clubs worldwide who are operating at a profit. The football industry runs on very shaky ground because of the current economic climate and because of the football industry in general. Commercially, Utd and Real Madrid are head & shoulders above everyone else so perceived debt on a club doesn't neccessarily mean they are in worse off waters than everyone else. A 10 year business model for the Glazers or anyone else for that matter, can work if the long-term commercial ad capital projections end up giving the owners a chance to sell at a profit. Thats what Abromovich will try and do, the Glazers, Hicks (doubtful), and Randy Lerner also. They dont care about tradition.

Managers these days cant just go out and buy anyone they want, as some people round here seem to think. Ferguson is very shrewd when it comes to spending, always has. He hasn't changed in 20 years in regards his scouting process or the types of deals he makes. Wiggy seems to think the money has dried up and fails to take these points into consideration. Fergie didnt spend 50 million on a striker so that must mean they are broke. As far as transfers are concerned, Ferguson has signed a crop of young players in the last 2 years that will go on to be superstars, whether thats at Utd or somewhere on the continent. More than likely turning a profit on those players just like with Ronaldo. Its good business and football sense. It seems a lot of people think the game is run like Fantasy Football. Hes been making good transfers wthout breaking the bank like City or Chelsea, nothing wrong with that.

In fact, if liverpool had done their homework they wouldnt be in this mess. They rushed through the deal with Hicks it seems knowing full well that the same business model he proposed for Liverpool drove Corinthians into the 2nd division in Brazil. He promised a new stadium, at least 30 million for players and to clean up all debts. Here he is 4 years later and the outcome is even worse. It seems this current deal is much the same, a quick sale with a PR promise of success and trophys just because the Red Sox won 2 world series since they took over. Clubs need to look elsewhere for buyers imo. These capitalist investment groups are a disease and they are completely fucking the game on all levels. Money talks though unfortunately & if Scudamore ups his share value on the premierleague in the process then the cycle will continue.

*deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath*  "One game at a time lads" - Strudders (Mar,Apr,May 2014)

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Personally, I blame David Unsworth.

For everything.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

despite all his caims to the contrary David Moores fucked us over for a higher share price

the man was niaive to say the least re: Gillette and Hicks' assurances that no debt would be placed on the club (technically it isn't but Kop Holdings only assett is LFC - so it amounts to the same thing)

it's the debt repayments that have fucked us and subsequently the amount of money made available for transfer fees and wages - as i and Simon have said previously in the thread we have made significant profits in the last 4 consecutive transfer windows!

the current yank cunt owners well and truly fucked us over and blame can be laid squarely at the feet of David Moores - he was just too stupid/greedy to see it coming/give a shit

check out my hearthis.at page

i'm too old for this shit

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Oh, so it's not Hodgson's fault anymore. It's Moore's.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Moores would have believed anything the happless clown Parry told him - I believe the two of them didn't want the books and their previous mis-exec management scrutinised ... hence not letting DIC complete due diligence and seeing what they had to offer.

They didn't look into Hicks track record enough - Moores just believed the rhetoric etc. and got greedy.

SimonR

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

simonpreston wrote:

Oh, so it's not Hodgson's fault anymore. It's Moore's.

Keep up Si.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog … oores-sale

SimonR

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

RichieRyan wrote:

The reason they're doing so terribly is predominantly Hodgson's fault and this was obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense

I dont see a shred of common sense in that statement either. Common sense in your post would have included every aspect of the current situation, not a CV comparison for the current and past managers or an obvious dislike of Hodgson post.

I see similarities with the people who blame Obama for the economic crisis in the states, conveniently forgetting about the years previous or the prelude to the collapse. 6 weeks ago Pool fans were over the moon with Joe Cole, now Hodsgon is in charge and it might prove to be a disastrous signing??

Too much cocaine on the terraces if you ask me.

*deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath*  "One game at a time lads" - Strudders (Mar,Apr,May 2014)

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

starcreeper wrote:
RichieRyan wrote:

The reason they're doing so terribly is predominantly Hodgson's fault and this was obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense

I dont see a shred of common sense in that statement either. Common sense in your post would have included every aspect of the current situation, not a CV comparison for the current and past managers or an obvious dislike of Hodgson post.

I see similarities with the people who blame Obama for the economic crisis in the states, conveniently forgetting about the years previous or the prelude to the collapse. 6 weeks ago Pool fans were over the moon with Joe Cole, now Hodsgon is in charge and it might prove to be a disastrous signing??

Too much cocaine on the terraces if you ask me.

If you know your footy that well you'd know that Hodgson is a very limited manager with a poor CV that is out of his depth. Poor at Inter, poor at Blackburn. The signing of Poulson speaks volumes.

LFC have a very decent 1st 11 + he inherited a strong squad yet couldn't get much out of them pre-season and failed (massively) to address key areas. Big Sam did well at Bolton but fell out of his depth at Newcastle, let alone one of the big 4 - he was someone else touted as an England manager.

The idiots that slagged off Rafa and wanted rid should look at his CV - one of the select few proven winners in football management.  Even the best go through poor spells, particlularly if board politics are involved ... look at Jose, he ended up ridiculed by some, slagged of for his approach on and off the pitch and was binned by Roman. Last year he was back on his perch and in demand at the top of the tree.

SimonR

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

Your forgetting Rafa was a cunt.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

And fergie isn't a whiskey swilling cunt ?

SimonR

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

simonr wrote:

If you know your footy that well you'd know that Hodgson is a very limited manager with a poor CV that is out of his depth. Poor at Inter, poor at Blackburn. The signing of Poulson speaks volumes.

Why are you refusing to see starcreepers point? That this was happening before Hodgson arrived and to shoulder the blame squarely on him is very unfair. Being out of his depth or not is irrelevant. It was starting to unravel before he arrived.

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

I'm not missing his point ... of course the malaise was happening. Yet Rafa still knocked Arsenal & Real out of the CL under immense pressure and was Riises stupid OG to Chelsea away from a 3rd CL final. Plus he then finished 2nd in the league despite the shitstorm going on.

Bentitez delivered some great results and trophies and consistent CL footy + some of the  best players seen at LFC in recent times. Last year saw the visible impact and symptoms kick in - the press campaign was sustained regardless of results and he's not everyones cup of tea. But Hodgson's incompetence has taken things to a whole new level - if I was that shit at my job I'd be sacked with no pay off.

Essentially Rafa inherited a weaker team and deliver a 5th European Cup - Hodgson inherited a stronger team and gave us our worst start for 57 years.

SimonR

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

So you ARE seeing my point, yet you go on about Rafa's record pre 2009-2010 season to justify your opinion that Hodgson is crap and has made things worse. A few weeks ago Rafa was the problem for the large majority of fans. Hodgson comes in to a nightmare situation with limited resources, tries to change things up a little to improve things, it doesnt work, so now hes the problem! Hodgson, contrary to your belief and his cv assessment is highly rated as a coach in European football. Given the right resources and stability things could be different. Hes no Jose or Fergie and he might not have won the european cup but hes got more credentials in management than Kenny Dalglish and at the time of his appointment, was the best option Liverpool had.

Saying they have a decent 11 is a blinkered biased comment. They rely on the same 2 players, if they're fit. Its a woeful squad of has-beens and rejects and to continue with the theme here, NO manager could turn things round with it. And you can go on about Insua and the other players who have come and gone all day. I doubt you have any idea about Insua's personal preference for this year, his contract situation or even his projected development as a premiership player by the coaching staff. As I said before, its not fantasy football. The people in management and in the backroom know whats best for the team.

*deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath*  "One game at a time lads" - Strudders (Mar,Apr,May 2014)

Re: Bin Dippers (Centenary Edition)

First of all it's October, that's what, 8 weeks into the season and you muppets are writing off your manager already. The boat was already taking on water well before last season only you are too blinkered by a manager's CV to see it. Crazy stuff, Benitez had no idea how to operate correctly in this country, he is a terrible communicator both with his players and with the media and that did for him in the end imo. So what if you had some good results, even winning the CL doesn't come close to winning the league. Consistency is king. Hodgson is very good with the media, he's English and is a steady hand at a time of serious crisis. I suppose the SoS crew are calling for his head now, just like they have been for Broughton, based on fuck knows what, how silly does that look now. Any fan calling for Hodgson's head at the moment is only bringing more grief to their club. Do carry on lol

I'm not sure where you get your business ideas from Creepy but it sounds remarkably like the sound of fiddling while Rome burns to me. You can spin it how you like but this genius new youth strategy has been forced upon Lord Ferg, it is ridiculous to suggest that is part of the master plan. He was still in the market for big money players until he got his financial wings clipped. Real and United are different cases too, they, like Barcelona have unique TV deals, unlike the rest of the European leagues where blanket deals are done. This is about to change in Spain so that will level the playing field, so to speak. United fans can't hide behind the idea that they are untouchable, that even if the club went tits up someone would always come to their rescue. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see that happen, really I don't. It would weaken the game here considerably and have a knock-on effect on football for a long time. It's about time the FA and the Premier League pulled their fingers out of their arses and did something to stop this happening again.